what do we do different in the united states or than russia or other countries. and i know you've written and said we may not have the best approach. >> well, i think we've taken very much a law enforcement view of hackers in our country. in fact, relations are pretty poisonous between authorities and the hacking community in this country. on the other hand in places like russia, china, elsewhere the master hackers are courted. there was a young man a few weeks ago, aaron schwartz, a pioneering figure in the internet who decided he wanted to put all the academic articles ever written in journals online and available to everyone and professor, we just love this idea, right? but he accessed mit journals, illicitly and the government was going to put him on trial and his sentence could have been found guilty. instead of taking a trial or taking a plea he killed himself. and recently i took a position asking president obama to pardon a british hacker, a brilliant autistic man who got into our defense systems and wanted to know about ufo's, hey, who doesn't. and he di